SkinTrack

New carbon ski boot: LaSportiva Stratos / Discussion about different carbon boots

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With some plain luck, I found this YouTube video that introduces the new LaSportiva Stratos carbon ski boot.
Before, there were only some images available along with some technical information. Now the picture gets clearer. The ski boot seems quite sophisticated, therefore the expectations will be high.
Take a look at the video and some basic information about the LaSportiva Stratos that were posted on SkinTrack couple of weeks ago.
You are welcome to post your reactions in the comments below. Mine is – WOW.

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. As far as sizing for Pierre Gignoux’s go, what worked well for me and Nina and what Pierre recommends is to measure your foot in centimeters for the boot size. My feet measured 27.5 cm and I went with a 27.5 boot. Nina was a 24.5 which fit her well too. I dont know much about the outer sole length, but do know many binding maufacuterers now make a plate for the heel piece that allows the heel to slide back and forth and only adds 20 grams or so.

  2. Joey, thanks for the info about sole lengths for PG boots and comparing them to other boots. It is important to share this as people that want to order them are somewhat left wondering about the sizing they should go with.
    Also, I just published Micheal Silitch’ “Look behind the scene” experience from Pierre Gignoux workshop, featuring great photos:
    http://www.skintrack.com/skimo-racing/pierre-gignoux-444-behind-the-scene-of-the-lightest-ski-boot-in-the-world/

  3. Simon,
    The sole lengths of all the PG sizes are listed here: http://www.pierregignoux.fr/Data/Xp500.pdf
    2nd page, table in the lower right hand corner labelled “tailles” and “longueur”. The “longueur” is the length from the front pins to the end of the heel of the boot. The DyNA is actually pretty close, with with the 28.5 DyNA being approx. 294mm, vs. 292mm for the 27.5 PG. If you mount your fixed position bindings just right, it could work, but not optimally for either boot. Also, the 28.5 DyNA and 27.5 PG fit the same.
    A personal update (it’s been a while): I ended up getting a pair of xp444 in late January. It seems that the order form I filled out last October was actually honored, even though I didn’t send money with it (I couldn’t figure out how to send money as there were no instructions on the website). One day an email arrived from Pierre himself saying “your boots are ready, they will be sent when payment is received.”
    So I have been on mine for about 4 or 5 weeks now, including one race. They are awesome. It took me quite a while to dial them in, including grinding down the carbon in a few places, but now they are very comfortable, light (of course), and ski downhill very nicely indeed.
    As an aside, I need to sell my F1 carbons now. I would like to keep both, but that seems excessive, even for me! I have them listed at the Telemarktips “tele turnaround” forum if anyone is interested. They are size 29.

  4. Just did a WC race and there wasnt 1 Dyna boot in the entire race! About 90% of the ISMF atheltes had PG boots with a few scarpas and the odd Sportiva

  5. Auick note on DyNA durability: so far I have just under 52,000 vertical on mine, spread out over 14 outings. (Yes, doing the math, lots of little ski tours.) roughly split between backcountry tours on Manaslu and ski area skinning for groomers on cheap old Atomic MX:20 race skis. So far, absolutely zero durability issues, outside of that little weird sort of problem I noted in my WildSnow review regarding how sometimes the right upper cuff buckle doesn’t quite lock in properly unless I carefully ensure that the little latch is pressed in correctly (which takes only a few seconds).

  7. Hi Michael,
    thanks for the reply. Can I ask how the PG’s are sized is it 26.5=27 (as the F1) or 27=27.5 (as Dynafit).
    I am interested and knowing this will let me see if the boot will fit my race bindings.
    Also is there any main point of weakness you could possibly flag up if looking at a second hand pair from the net. I see a few pairs over the last year selling for around €800, but this is still a lot of cash if they fail and you have no warranty. I am still kinda keen on the F1 carbon but can’t help thinking they are an interim measure while scarpa sort their act out so the XP mountain looks more attractive.
    Thanks again
    Simon

  8. Hi Simon,
    Well, I’m 49 and cant always keep up with my world cup wife, so I do like the lightweight for climbing for sure, but still feel they out perform on the descent. I’ve not heard of cold affected the strength, Nina has damaged hers before, but never tour ending damage. The rubber rand seems like it would protect well from rocks. On the other hand I’ve recently seen the heel lever pin on F1’s slide out and become almost tour ending.
    We ordered on line (measure foot length in cm). Plan ahead as there is quite a wait. I want to get a pair of the mountain version for haute route tours! I have been to his shop a couple times as well.
    Let us know if you ever come up to tour in Chamonix!

  9. Thanks Michael,
    I’m in the the Ecrins, Pelvoux. Yes I had considered the XP mountain as a more durable option. I have no first hand experience of them, but do see people in them week in week out. I have always been a little worried about the stories of the lower shell cracking in really cold conditions when hitting rock etc.
    I must admit that overall weight is not my main concern, I am a bit of a plodder and the wrong side of 40 to be thinking of glory, but more interested in saving time and surviving some of the bush whacking descents.
    Did you visit Pierre in Grenoble for a fitting or complete the purchase on line?
    Thanks,
    Simon

  10. Hi Simon,
    Where are you based? I am in chamonix. My wife and I have the Pierre Gignoux’s and she has trained and raced in the same pair EVERY DAY for three years straight. Everything from long day tours in the high mountains (col de chardonnet, col d’entreve, col de crochue berard, col du passon, etc, etc to lots of training). I guess what I am saying is you can ski this boot all winter. Stepahn Brosse just skied some super steep first descents in it with Pierre Tardivel. And the great thing is that it is super stiff for the descents, yet tours like a xc ski boot. Going down it is noticably stiffer than the F1 (i’ve owned both) and I would also say stiffer than most even beefy freeride tour boots. We have had to get new buckles and tongues on the PG boots from time to time, but no big deal. PG also makes a “mountain” boot with a rubber rand for added durability. So rethink the PG boot 🙂

  11. Hi all, I have read through this post in great detail as I am trying to decide between the new F1 and the DYna. I read with great interest the detailed comparison by Travis Scheefer on the 2 boots however did notice that he had only skied the DYna. I am conscious that most people having departed with a months salary will usually defend their purchase, this is natural. So, has anyone out there actually skied both boots and can give a direct comparisonhow one skis/skins compared to the other?
    I myself am keen to choose the boot that will be able to ski all season and not just racing. I have trab WC race skis which I ski most of the time, but would like the boot to handle something at least as big as my seven summits I have skied the old F1 with the seven summit on perfect spring snow during long tours but found as the day got longer and the snow more difficult the boot required a lot more muscle to get it turning. Do any users think the F1 carbon would be up to this task, and do you believe it tough enough to be used day in, day out?
    I am living in the French Alpes and could with a bit of searching pick up a set of PG’s but I know I wouldn’t be able to ski them daily, so its either one of the above.
    One last question, is the lower shell sized identically sized to the last years F1 as I think I would ski the same size and swap liners. I was thinking of getting a super light liner from PG later as they still have the thickness of the older scarpa liners.
    Many thanks for any info in advance,
    Simon

  12. Tony: ya, I’ve heard really good things about the DyNA. I thought about getting it instead of a race specific boot but went for the extra weight saving in the end. As a mountaineering tool and occasional race boot I think it is the way to go. It just feels more durable than my Scarpas when I hold it. That said, it is nearly 1kg and definitely not a World Cup race piece. Keep the comments about the boot coming as the season rolls out. If the price drops next season, this may be my new “fast mountain” boot!

  13. regarding babying race specific boots: I’ve put 15 backcountry days on the DyNA, most of them over 8 hours. I didn’t buy it as a race boot, but as a light touring boot. I’m 190 lbs, half the time has been spent skiing the 9lb Black Diamond Justice, half the time on the Dynafit Manaslu. I ski them hard, no babying.
    So far I’ve had 2 issues. 1 – I didn’t tie a strong enough non-slip knot in the kevlar shoelace lower buckles, and had to re-tie them in the field one day (double sheet bend has worked great, after I educated myself about some new knots). 2 – the velcro tab on the liner is fraying a little – trimmed with scissors, melt edges with a lighter. Pretty chintzy piece of velcro, but it doesn’t take any load – I could probably just cut it off.
    Perhaps the extra couple of ounces are worth it. Perhaps they are not technically race-specific. Either way, I love these boots.

  14. I don’t regret my decision to go with the F1. I think that XP has durability issues and I will put money on it that the Stratos will to. I think here in NA we just aren’t used to having “race specific” ski boots. I mean, you buy boots, go out and ski and they are usually bomber. I think now that I have accepted that these carbon boots are really a race specific tool and you have to baby them a bit, I will be better off. Its kind of like high performance gear in any sport really I guess. Look at how many $200 hockey sticks we see snap at the most unexpected times.

  15. Wow, based on reading these, I am kind of glad I didn’t order a pair of F1 carbon. That is not to say I would not order in the future but I will likely wait and then just go to the full-on carbon boot from one of the smaller manufacturers.

  16. I would warn against Alex’s suggestion of putting a rivet at this pivot point (though I did ponder that myself). The reason is that the machined aluminum nuts that create this pivot point actually act as bushings also so that no stress is put on the carbon around them. A rivet would allow all kinds of stress in this area because it would be flexed against the carbon itself and likely crack it. I would definitely go the thread-lock route because, like Joey says, if these are replaceable, it would likely not be easy or expeditious to get new ones. Try replacing a broken cable on an old F1, you can get um’ but it takes forever, at least here in Canada.
    That’s another thing, you should cut a couple of pieces of Dyneema to fit the lock-down mechanism and practice rethreading the boot a few times so you can do it easily if one snaps in a race. Or just learn to ski really fast with you boot open!

  17. If everyone is having some minor problems with the pivots on the F1 carbons, perhaps riveting them may solve the constant pre-flight check. An option at least, I know this may change your ability to adjust cuff angle, but whatever you’re going up.

  18. Just read Joey’s post and that reminded me. EVERY time you go out in these boots check all of the threaded pivots for tightness. I had one of the large ankle pivots work loose but luckily caught it. I don’t knock the boots for this as this would happen with any application of this type. Plus, Scarpa provides tools and warns that you should preflight your boots often to avoid loosing a pivot. So just remember to check or, like Joey, suggested, Threadlock them.

  19. Reiner:
    I use my old F1 liners exclusively with my new carbons. Scarpa should be ashamed of the liner they put in those boots. The crappy part is that in many pictures of the boot online, they show it with the older style liner which makes customers believe they are dealing with something like what is in the old F1. I find with the new liner my foot is all over the place in the boot (slip), and I can’t tighten the thing around my ankle enough to get it to ski as well as it should. This crappy liner was obviously a panicked effort in my opinion to get the weight down. I love these boots with the old liners however, they add 35g to each foot and for a boot like this….those grams cost a lot of Euro. Also, be watchful of small stress fractures indicated by a whitening of the carbon around areas that flex a lot. These are starting to show up in my boots and a friends pair and though it doesn’t seem to affect the performance so far, this is a little worrisome for the future. I have gone back to training with my old F1s and will only use the Carbons for races. I guess this is the price you pay for needing gear that is on the cutting edge for weight reduction while trying to preserve performance and durability.

  20. Ended up receiving my F1 Carbons a few days ago and I must say I’m impressed with there weight but still a little undecided on there economy. As for sizing Joey I think they may have realized by now that the smaller liners are a problem with there sizing and they labeled my boots which are actually a shell size 27.5-28 as 29 mondo (with a white sticker above the shell size UK 9.5-10 which = 27.5-28).
    Even with the smaller shell I find these liners to slip alittle more then my old F1’s and I have added a couple insoles to try to stop the slip. Does any one else have problems with there feet slipping in there boots? I guess a certain amount of slip is unavoidable but one would think it is inefficient? I also noticed that the more I do up the toe buckles the less slip but at the cost of comfort and full natural movement of the foot. My guess is that because of the stiffer bellow the foot now slides more inside the boot and maybe this is more efficient? I have put my old F1 liners in my F1 Carbons today and I will see how that feels.

  21. I had my first f1 carbon failure today… 🙁 Not a catastrophic one, though, but instructive for f1 carbon owners. The bolts that attach the rear lever to the cuff came loose. There is a threaded fitting that the bolt screws into inside the cuff. If the bolt comes out, there is nothing holding the fitting. I lost one bolt/fitting completely; luckily one stayed in so I was able to reattach the lever and ski home.
    If you ski f1 carbons, I would remove these bolts and reinstall using the threadlock. It also might be a good idea to somehow get some spare fittings and bolts. I hope scarpa USA can get me at least one pair by Saturday…. our first race.
    I had already pulled the trigger on a pair of standard f1 race to train in, as I agree with James that constant touring/training is hard on these boots (plus, I hate getting in and out of them!). Now I’m glad I made that decision.

  22. If you buy those boots you can now get a matching race suit in black and yellow now, or maybe thats overkill… Ha Ha.

  23. Good point Ian. I see those ads myself and wonder. However, I don’t know what’s driving the sell-off because it’s not like you can sell the older Gigoux model and trade up just like that. I contacted Gignoux in October thinking that would be plenty of time to acquire boots for this season and was told 6-8 months! So I went with Scarpa. So if it just a matter of trading up, people selling them off would already have to have their new 444s in hand. At 1300Euro I think this is unlikely but who knows. I’m also curious about durability issues. I’ve been skiing my Scarpa carbons for a couple of months now and already I can tell that these boots aren’t in it for the long hall. Depressing when you think of what a pair costs. As I said before, carbon as a material only likes to move and flex in certain ways and skiing is a very aggressive, crazy activity that puts all kinds of stresses and traumas on these boots. Take one piece hockey sticks for instance. They are fare and away superior to wood, metal, or glass but they fatigue rapidly, break easily, and cost a lot of bucks! But man can you wire a puck with one!

  24. They must be selling older models of the gignoux boot to buy the new one. It will be nice when boots start to climax in there evolution and or they cap the weight. It seems this has happened with skis and the gear gap is starting to vanish. I guess the question with a boot cap would be do they have a staggered cap for different sizes?

  25. just to support what Stano’s saying, there’s quite a few classified ads on skimountaineering.org for gignoux carbon boots… I’d be curious if there was any durability issues with second hand carbon boots as I’ve heard of people having to patch them regularly…. but they do have a 1 year warranty.

  26. There will be plenty of carbon boots for re-sale this year, I believe.
    Just by looking at the photos from current Euro races it looks like 6 or 7 out of 10 athletes have some carbon boot (and I spotted some Stratos too). So we should bring lots of cash with us when going to Europe.
    Any sponsors? 🙂

  27. Re: Scarpa F1s Carbon sizing issue
    I talked to my “Euro connection” today and he just went to try his new F1 Carbons in 28 MP size as that is what he has had for all his previous F1 models. And the verdict is that he is waiting for an exchange to 27 MP size. Apparently the new liner makes the shells feel so much bigger.

  28. James, for the money I paid for those boots, I would be psyched if my scale were the problem. I don’t think it is, though. I get 850g for the shells, 150g for the stock liners (no insole). I don’t have a fancy scale, but it seems to agree with published weights often enough that I think it must be accurate within a few grams. I wonder what the discrepancy is caused by. Maybe I’ll get up to Canada for a race this winter and we can compare. I’ll bring my scale!
    I also wonder why I can’t get the bellows to flex in walk mode when I (regrettably, and hopefully not much longer!) outweigh you by 5 lbs. Maybe there is a lot of variability during production?
    For the sake of not hijacking this comment thread any further, I’ll refrain from any pole discussion, but I’m looking forward to an article and everyone’s comments!

  29. I would agree with Joey regarding the sizing of the Carbon F1 IF you have regularly proportioned feet. The liner is super thin and therefore there is more room in the same size Carbon shell as in the older F1 Pebax shell. That said, if you have a wide foot, like I do, you still need to size fairly true in order to get the width in the forefoot. As a result, I have a good fit in most places but there is a bit of room in the heel. For the record, my foot is exactly 28cm long but wide in the forefoot. I don’t really find the below any stiffer in this new boot but it does flex differently because the bellow is oriented at a different angle to the long axis of the boot. I find this results in the bellow flexing sooner in the stride. IE: as you place your foot uphill, the new bellow will initiate flexion sooner with less of your weight positioned over it. With the old bellow, you had to step-up onto the boot as you stepped up and then the bellow would flex once you were standing right on top of it. Hope this makes sense. In any event, I find the new boot tours more efficiently than the old. One thing I really hate about it, that the Stratos has solved via velcro, is that the gusset migrates around over time and gets all bunched up under the buckle and cuff. If they devised a way to keep it in place that would be great. Sorry to keep posting about this boot but I want to share as much as possible before people through down mega-Euro for a pair.
    I also wanted to put a plug in for Ski Trab skis. I own three pairs now, the Sint Aero and two sets of Duo Race World Cup (09 and 2010, 171 and 164). These skis are very high quality and very nice to ski. A very stiff ski and it is amazing the kind of shit you can ski on with these little sticks. I find the skin fix system to very good and very suited to whatever your imagination can come with for a race mod. Also, I am 6′ 180lbs and these skis have stood up to a huge beating. The World Cups I used last year have everything thrown at them and though they are a little beat up they still ski like new and have way fewer wounds than they should.

  30. Thanks Joey that is interesting that they made the bellow thicker and harder to bend! I know when I first got my F1s they took awhile to break the bellows in before they became fully flexible. Hopefully we can still get a little bit of flex out of them because I really enjoy the flex in the foot and still believe that the bellow adds to efficiency in lower angle skinning.
    As for the weight I would be surprised to see them weighing that much more then the 27-28.5 shells as it is only a couple cms bigger which is roughly about a 1/14th size increase and a 14th of 840g would be 62g to make a total of about 902 grams. Unless they have increased other dimensions out of proportion to the smaller size which could be possible?

  31. Joey, good to hear from more people reporting on the carbon F1s, and in big details. James was so far the only one that could do it based on a personal experience.
    It is interesting to hear about the bellows being made more stiffer for the carbon F1s. James, is this something you noticed on your boot compared to your old F1s?
    And Joey, I appreciate your appreciation of the site as it motivates to do more and even better 😉
    Regarding a ski pole article, I was actually thinking about it (but other topics took over for now). And I believe that you want to talk about racing poles instead of just poles. I am currently working on an interesting skimo racing article, so the one about poles will come soon enough but will take some time.

  32. Joey,
    You might want to check your scale because my Carbon F1 (29) are 922gr with stock liner (no red footbed). Or maybe I should check my scale!!
    As a note on poles. I have the Trab Piuma Race Ergal poles. I’m 6′ exactly and use the 140cm length. Not as light as some of the carbon offerings but very stiff and waaaayy more durable. I tend to be hard on poles so these are better for me. I think if I were going to just race the vertical event in Europe I would just go with a super light, stiff carbon xc pole but for skiing/mass starts/my tired messy skiing….I like these Trabs.

  33. To clarify, I can’t flex the bellows with the cuff open. I can flex them with the cuff closed and aggressively flexing the boot with the heel off the ground (think telemark turn).

  34. Reiner, I’m afraid I may have your boots… my 29MP f1 carbon races arrived on the 23rd. Sorry about that! Now that I have them and have skied them a couple of times, a few notes: first, if you are truly a 29, you’ll probably fit better in the 27.5/28 shell. The liners are very thin, about half the thickness of normal thermomoldable liners. I went over to the backcountry.com store in Salt Lake and tried on the 28.5 and 27.5 f1 race (non-carbon) for comparison. My toes feel better in the bigger shell, but the 27.5 was a good “race fit”. My solution is to use my liners from my tlt4 races. Also, the 29 is MUCH heavier than the advertised 840g for 27.5. Mine are 1050g with stock liners. Very disappointing. Still they are a bit lighter than my tlt4 races, awesome ankle articulation, and very fast transitions.
    I have trouble getting into the boot. I have a very high instep, and the position that they have riveted the gusset in leaves a small opening to get through.
    As for the bellows, I can only guess that Scarpas racers told the R&D team that they didn’t like them, but rather than change the molds, they increased the durometer so that they are, in practice, inflexible. I can’t flex them, and I am 6’1″/185 lbs. I am fine with that as I never thought it was a good idea.
    I owned 1st gen F1’s, and I always hated how far forward the pivot points were. I was scarred these would be the same. Fortunately, they are moved back, but I think my dynafits are even further back. This is also exacerbated when you go up a shell size. My toes are happy, but my boot’s lever arm is longer! 🙁
    Overall, it’s a great boot, but I still have Gignoux envy.
    Stano, I love your site, it’s great to be able to find information about racing. Thanks a lot. Could you maybe do a post about poles so we can have a discussion about it? I am very interested to hear what others think, but no one every talks about them. Just an idea.

  36. Reiner, are you sure that Telemark-pyrenees.com doesn’t have a 29MP left. That is what I got from them and when I last spoke to them about my Manaslu’s they said they still have 29s left in the Carbon F1. I’ve had mine for a month now. I’ve used them for everything racing, day tripping, and one long tour and they are very good so far. Nice and stiff for 850gr, one buckle “race” boot and I can even ski my fatter, heavier K2 Shuksans with them. a few minor abrasions but no cracking.
    Merry Christmas, see you in January.

  37. Looks like my order didn’t come through on my Carbon F1’s so I’m back on the market ahh! Talking with people that own carbon boots they seem to be using the Carbon boots for tours and arnt running into a tone of problems. They do need to repair there boots with contact cement to protect against abrasions cracking ect but its not out of control. Another problem was in saving weight the manufacturer would put in rivets that were not practical for the demands of skimo but you can take the 10 gram hit and order the heaver duty rivets when you buy the boots.
    So really it comes down to the bellow argument again, at least in my mind but at this point I will take what ever I can get my hands on!

  38. My opinion of the Stratos is that it is over-engineered in terms of complexity and the cost of that will been realized in lack of durability. Anyone who owns carbon sporting equipment has probably realized that although it is very strong and stiff when in bulk (ie: carbon bike frame very strong vs carbon dropouts very flimsy and week). On the boot, I would be VERY concerned about the durability of the carbon surrounding the rivets where the ankle and foot arch panels rotate to facilitate boot entry. When yo start “twisting” carbon panels around a small point of attachment like this it tends to form hairline fractures and eventually break. Also, the buckle that surrounds the foot is held in place by cord. Any of us who own F1s know that cord wears and eventually breaks. This is fine when it is easily replaced by the user in the garage, however, the level of integration hear looks like replacement of that tiny piece of cord would be a nightmare.
    I do like the compression strap idea to hold the liner in place. And I like the liner lacing system although once that velcro is contaminated watch out. I ski in the F1 carbon and the gusset on that boot really sucks in terms of how it fits under the cuff. The Stratos looks like it has a better tailored gusset which velcros in place which would be nice. The thing I like about my F1s is that they are very simple, fixable, and user friendly. And I would disagree with you Stano in that this boot is not designed for long traverses and tours. That is exactly what I would use a boot like this for. I bet it is stiff enough to turn descent sized skis. Sure, you won’t be free-skiing in it but that is not a traverse. Take the Dynafit DyNA: from reports I have heard, it turns bigger skis pretty well and is an ideal mountaineering/traverse tool. The same goes for my Carbon F1s, they turn a bigger ski decent enough and are great on big touring days. The Stratos looks very beautiful but I wonder if that beauty hides some serious flaws.

  39. I don’t think you could sell both your nuts to pay for those boots! It will be nice in a couple years when things hopefully start to level off and supply catches up to demand. I realize they spend a tone of money on design and marketing but does anyone actually know what it would cost to produce a boot like this in regards to materials/labor?

  41. Rubic’s cube 🙂 Well, I don’t think LaSportiva made it as a multi-day traverse boot.
    The whole boot looks very professional and I wonder what the price will be. I would guess around $1700-2100. Looks like it is made in Italy.
    Interesting points to watch:
    At 1:25 and 2:35 – I like how the compression strap is integrated with the outside closing system of the boot. It is the first time I see an attempt of firmer integration of the liner inside a shell.
    At 2:05 – Since the liner tongue is laced to your lower leg there shouldn’t be any shin rubbing. The question then is “how thin and soft the liner is?”. To me it appears very thin and soft, so should be no issue there.
    At 3:50 – The way it locks into ski mode seems nice but I wonder whether it would lock on you if you take a long stride while climbing.

  42. James left a comment, regarding this topic, under a different post :
    “That new Sportiva boot looks slick. However, it might be easier to solve a Rubic’s cube (sp?) blindfolded than get that boot on!”

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