Ski boots details on this page:
- Comparing 22 lightest ski mountaineering boots under 1000g (half pair in size 26 at minimum) that are currently on the market. All are mostly suitable for skimo racing but also fast & light ski mountaineering.
- Technical specs (weight, sizes…) are from manufacturers’ websites and other official or confirmed sources.
- In small sizes, some of these boots may be less than the minimum ISMF weight limits – 500 g (for men) and 450 g (for women) – specified in the ISMF sporting rules.
Stano Faban says
Way to go Robert!
Jonathan Shefftz says
Robert, what an amazing debut for a new pair of boots!
And love that on-site service also.
Robert says
To follow up on my earlier questions, I got the Syborg 28 and after a bit of widening in the toe area, they’re very comfortable! They do feel tight on the instep when I put them on, but it doesn’t bother me much, although the top of my foot does get a bit red.
I have some heel lift, so I need to do some padding out there. But, either way, I just completed Pierra Menta, and aside from some blisters on my heels, they were great. Other issues were: the lower ratchet buckle on the left boot was slightly faulty so it released easily. Duct tape solved that for the race. Secondly, I accidentally snagged the rear lever with my via ferrata carabiner and pulled it all the way up, so I couldn’t lock the boot in to ski mode for the final descents.
There was a La Sportiva stand at the race, and they replaced both buckles and both levers (I think my boots didn’t include the stopper mod recently added to the boots to prevent the lever flicking all the way up)
The also appear to accommodate the Grival Haute Route crampons, although I haven’t used them in a race, only a short hike in training.
Overall, I’m very happy with them.
Eric Carter says
@Nick – Seems to be the case 🙂 Though the scientist in me wonders if you can appropriately calculate to that high of a decimal when you are only measuring weight to the gram…
Nick Brown says
Grams per dollars:
Scarpa Alien 850g/$800 = 1.0625
Sportiva Syborg 815g/$800 = 1.01875
Dynafit PDG 830g/$850 = 0.97647058823
Dynafit DY.N.A Evo 750g/$1400 = 0.53571428571
Scarpa Alien 1.0 700g/$1900 = 0.36842105263
Pierre Gignoux Black 600g/$1800 = 0.33333333333
Pierre Gignoux Race 500g/$1700 = 0.29411764705
Scarpa Alien 3.0 580g/$2200 = 0.26363636363
Dynafit RC1 510g/$2100 = 0.24285714285
Dynafit DNA 510g/$2500 = 0.204
Sportiva Stratos Cube 555g/$2800 = 0.19821428571
Not the only measure of boot by any means. (Fit, ski performance, etc)
But does this mean the Scarpa Alien is the best value for money?! 😉
Jonathan Shefftz says
I know from personal experience that the plastic portion of the lower shell on the Alien 1.0 can be stretched — and more importantly, hold the stretch w/o any rebound.
Skimo Co says the Syborg is Grilamid so should work for a skilled boot technician.
I know that the 2015-16 TLT6 Performance (in black) switched to Pebax. But the older white & blue PDG was supposed to be Grilamid, and the black & blue 2014-15 is listed as Grilamid by Skimo Co, and I haven’t heard any changes for 2015-16. Plus if it had changed, sure would have bumped up the weight, and the spec is still the same.
(The TLT6 managed to stay about the same b/c the heavier lower shell was compensated for by switching from the heavier CR liner to the lighter CL liner.)
Andrew M says
Robert – the lower boot on both the current PDG and Syborg are grilamid, which generally responses well to punching. You may be thinking of the new (black) TLT6 which is now pebax (formerly grilamid in the green TLT6 and TLT5). Pebax is more difficult for boot fitters to work with/punch.
Robert says
Thanks jonathan about the comments on half sizing. I didn’t know about the 2X.5 and 2Y.0 shell being identical for those boots.
Another query I have, can all of these boots be heat punched?
I heard the new Dynafit PDG are made with pebax, so not so easily heat punched? And can the syborg be heat punched?
Thanks!
Jonathan Shefftz says
I’ve also heard the same about the Syborg being wider and/or higher volume (even if the official stats seem to indicate otherwise), and it worked out for a buddy who bought it for that reason (although his size is way too big for me to do a side-by-side comparison w/ my boots).
I can confirm that with my feet in the shells of a 26 Alien 1.0 and a 25.5/26.0 EVO, the widths seems identical.
By contrast, the shell of a 26 RC1/Ultimate/400 is way wider in the forefoot.
Somehow though the boot has been fine for both skinning & skinning – the instep is fairly low, so combined with the laces, must be snugging up my foot where it counts for actually controlling the ski.
But of course that boot would be an even bigger leap of faith and financial commitment…
Also, for any of these boots – whether skimo race, ski touring, alpine downhill – half sizes are a complete fiction, but the shell break varies by model. Both Syborg and EVO/PDG have 2X.5 and 2Y.0 as identical, although that differs from other Dynafit models (e.g., TLT5/6 has 2X.0 and 2X.5 as identical).
So if you try on a different half size in the same boot, you might be trying on a shell that differs by about a full cm, or the only difference might be a minor liner tweak that will disappear upon any use.
Robert says
Thanks for the replies! Sadly, in my part of Norway it’s mostly Dynafit or nothing. I have to fly to another city to access more skimo options. However, I’ll see if I can get one of the local stores to order in some Syborgs. I started skimo racing last year and have second hand gear, but now I want to get new gear. It’s just quite scary to spend around 700 USD on something that might not fit.
Alastair Olby says
Robert, I have both the Alien 1.0 in a 28 and the Syborg in 27.5. My feet are medium wide, with a high arch and instep. For me the half point sizing of the Syborg makes all the difference. The Alien 27 is too small for me and I had to pack the 28 to reduce the volume for my feet, whereas the Syborg 27.5 is perfect. It’s got less volume for my instep – *just* enough – , and I barely need to use the lower strap on the shell, whereas on the Aliens I have to ratchet down the boa. Width-wise the Syborg’s are great for me, but I expect what you’d need to watch is whether stretching them for width brought the instep down too much. Worth trying some on if you can to see how much difference the half point sizing in the Syborg makes.
I’ve had Dynafits in the past but never the PDG. My feet don’t seem a good match with the Dynafit last, though maybe that’s changed in recent years. Usually for me there’s too much volume for the given length, so maybe they’re the best bet for you? Hope this helps.
Stano Faban says
Robert, the Syborg boot forefoot last width is 99mm and Alien is 100.4mm according to both brands. I don’t know numbers for Dynafit PDG boots. I believe the Syborgs should be the most “width friendly” of the three, however, you do have a large volume foot in both directions so it’s hard to say whether punching a Syborg will work. Unfortunately, skimo race boots as a whole are known to “discriminate” many by size and volume. Hope you can find a suitable solution.
Robert says
Any comments on the fit for the PDG vs Syborg vs Alien? I have the old PDGs punched out in all directions, but they’re still not great. I’ve tried the aliens, but they’re way too narrow. Unfortunately I don’t have access to the Syborgs. Are the Synborgs a wider fit that the PDG and Aliens? Any tips on how to make any of these boots fit a wider foot? My problem is that I have a high arch/instep and wide feet, so stretching the boots sideways compresses vertically, and vice-versa.
Thanks
Alastair Olby says
With 2 solid months’ training on the new Scarpa Alien 1.0 sock liner, after 3 years on the original black and yellow liners, I thought I’d offer some impressions. For me the sock liner gives more shin protection, though the old liners were fine. There’s no heel rub in walk mode, and if anything, they’re warmer (read too hot for me in most conditions). For some reason the left shell now always lets in more snow than with the old liners, and this causes tight spots at times between shell and liner (despite using a gaiter). They’re also significantly shorter in length than the old liners, so I had to thermoform them with lots of padding around the toes. They’re still rather tight though. The cuff height has also got shorter over time. I have to pull them up as high as I can, but my widening calf means they quickly move down when I’m climbing, and I have to pull them up again before closing the boot for the downhill or they sit too low in the shell and are uncomfortable.
The major downside of the new liners is they’re so hard to take off, and at the end of a long hard race I’ve been cramped up trying to pull the darn things off! The other downside of the pair I have at least, is durability. I had to resew one seam before I even started using them as the stitching was undoing. After 2 months’ use they now have holes on the ankle seam, holes developing in the ankle flex zone at the back, and the tape around the top is pulling off. My old liners, on the other hand, have 200,000 m vertical on them and are still holding up well, held together with duck tape inside a pair of Pierre Gignoux boots. I wish I could get another pair of the old liners…
Ben Martin says
And what do you do if you’ve got big feet and need boots longer than 30cm?!
JCoates says
Jonathan and Stano,
Correct me if I am wrong, but Dynafit still doesn’t offer a race boot (EVO, PDG, etc) in anything larger than a size 29. If they do, I would love any info on who is selling them. It’s a shame and I guess its says a lot about genetics as being a part of world-class skimo racers (big on lungs, small in feet).
Josh
Jonathan Shefftz says
Eric, my impression is that relatively little has changed:
– La Sportiva has the entirely price point Syborg.
– Dynafit RC 1 is just the PG Ultimate, which in turn is just the Race 400 with a modified interface for the PG Ultimate binding, all of which PG has been tweaking over the last few years.
– Dynafit EVO has a new removable rear spoiler, and the instep buckle has a velcro flap closure for micro adjust like the upper cuff buckle. The liner is totally different – seems like the velcro side closure might combine the best features of the prior liner (i.e., easy entry/exit) and the Alien 1.0 liner (i.e., neither overlap nor tongued). The sole rubber also has a new color, and who knows if it has a new composition – the full coverage though was already introduced for the 2012-13 season.
– Dynafit PDG looks the same in every detail, except for the color scheme.
– Scarpa Alien 1.0 and “0.0″ appear to be unchanged, and only something like a dozen pairs of the 2.0 will be available in North America this season.
Eric Carter says
Any chance of getting a notation on what has changed and what remains the same?
Stano Faban says
Speaking of Scarpa Alien 1.0 in size 28:
My problem is that my right foot is shorter by about 5mm so I always have to compromise with footwear – fits one foot well, not so much the other. With my Aliens I had the 28 fit almost like a glove and the left to be quite tight, but 29 size was no option as I was completely swimming in it with my right. So I decided to punch the left 28 and it worked out with great success in a local shop. The warning though is – the material doesn’t want to stretch but once it passes the right temperature (heating time) then it really stretches like crazy and there is not really a way back with this one, so be careful.
Alastair Olby says
Simon, I have the Alien 1.0 in a 28 with my toes *nearly* touching the shell. However there was still a bit too much volume for my foot and I was getting heel lift. I popped in a second very thin (16g) insole below my thermoformed ones in the inner and it made all the difference. Now I have no heel rub problems at all and the inner fits like a glove. My (second pair of) old overlap inners have now had it so I’m going to have to get some of the new sock liners, and time will tell how they compare.
Stano Faban says
Thanks!
Roeske says
Man, this Skintrack community rocks!
Stano Faban says
Hi Roeske,
Seems like Jonathan and I agree as I emailed you similar thoughts 🙂
Let us know what you chose and how it worked out 😉
Roeske says
Hey Jonathan,
Thanks! I am planning to use an overboot like those made by 40 Below. I just got a rash of these boots in the mail today that I’m gonna try on and send most back… Hoping I pick the right one!
Jonathan Shefftz says
Roeske, both of these boots are if anything *too* warm for my feet, but that’s moving fast in winter New England and late-spring/early-summer PNW.
For truly cold weather mountaineering, I suspect that only solution is to size up a full shell and then stick in a thicker/warmer liner — probably something from Intuition’s extensive line-up.
I also suspect that your only model option is to the 2013-14 Scarpa Alien (“0.0”) with the internal gaiter, as the Dynafit EVO & PDG might let in too much snow, and using the proprietary gaiter with the Alien 1.0 might be too much an annoyance in that kind of environment … unless a non-proprietary gaiter would work with either the EVO/PDG or Alien?
Roeske says
For those of you who have tried some of these boots, can anyone give me advice on which you think would be best for cold-weather climbing? I’m planning a speed ascent of Denali and I want a boot that will ski well, but then excel when I toss the skis and hike up the rest. Thanks!
Stano Faban says
Simon and Jonathan,
Haven’t fully read your comments so just a general side note – by ISMF rules you are not supposed to alter your equipment at all (apart from some fitting adjustments). So just keep that in mind when doing mods and want to compete in sanctioned races.
Simon says
Jonathan, thanks, I never thought to strip the cuffs down. I removed the tongue and rear cuff reinforcing patches and this allows the carbon cuff to overlap enough to close correctly. In a carpet test, the boot fit now feels correct, with heel lift eliminated, an all round snugger fit and all for a weight increase of only 36g per boot. With the reinforcing removed there is still more cushioning than the stock liner which will remove some of the harshness due to the stiffness in ski mode. Also there is no noticeable difference in the ankle rotation. So I am very happy, now I can’t wait to try them out.
Thanks again,
Simon
Jonathan Shefftz says
Simon, maybe I saved you money, but I still haven’t solved your problem!
Looking back at this:
” I did try the 27 race liners from the old DyNa, this gave an almost perfect fit, however the cuff is too thick for the carbon collar to overlap correctly.”
– My suggestion is to have a boot fitter remove some additional foam from the upper cuff. Or if you’re handy, you can do it yourself with a surgical scalpel. I’ve had this done to the toe box of my Zzero4 liners years ago, and more recently to my Dynafit EVO boots.
– Alternatively, the homemade “bikini” liner sounds intriguing, and will even lighten up the boot a bit, but I suspect that even slight shifting around of the parts will cause endless problems.
Simon says
Jonathan, thanks for your reply. Your help here has saved me 120 euros. I am now in that mental mind game where I keep telling myself that I should have gone with the 27. They just felt too tight, and due to the minimal liner, you kinda know your toe is touching the shell and not the liner that will pack out. I think the next step may be to experiment with a bikini liner that is thicker in the lower part and a thinner cuff, I may even cut my dynafit liners and sew them up at the ankle hinge. If it works , I will then cut the cuffs from the alien liner and fit some Velcro to them.
Thanks again
Simon
Jonathan Shefftz says
Simon, I briefly tried on the Alien 1.0 with those older overlap liners before I bought the 1.0 with the sock-like liner.
The new sock-like liner *looks* more substantial from a distance, since the padded areas stand out from the areas that have no padding whatsoever.
But the padded areas are still very thin.
I used them several times before having some modifications done on the shell at the heel. I had not tried molding the liners, since I was concerned about botching the process, given how they have to pulled on like a sock. I asked my boot technician about molding them, and he thought that after using them several times, whatever thermomolding of the thin material that could be accomplished had already been done via skiing.
So overall, although I think the new liner is an improvement, I suspect it’s not enough of any improvement to go out of your way to buy them for a pair of boots you already have with the older liners.
Simon says
Hi, I have the older Alien 1.0 with the super thin intuition yellow and black liner. I am a 27 but had to go for the 28 as my left foot is very slightly longer, closer to a 27.5 and the 27 was just too neat a fit. I have been using the size 27 liners from my F1 carbons, which are a little snugger and give me a better fit in the heels. I was getting a bit too much heel lift with my right foot and this caused blisters.
Does anyone have a comparison of the older liners with the newer 2014 intuition liner? It looks to me to be more substantial. Does it thermo form? I found thermo forming the older alien liner almost pointless as it did not seem to have enough foam to hold any real shape and certainly does not puff out to take up spare volume around the foot. I did try the 27 race liners from the old DyNa, this gave an almost perfect fit, however the cuff is too thick for the carbon collar to overlap correctly.
Any advice greatly appreciated, I would do the obvious thing and try them out, but I cannot get them in my area and would have to buy them over the internet form the Italy.
Great site BTW, I was in the French Alps for 5 years and have found more information on this site than I ever got there.
Simon.
peter k says
Looks like the ISMF has ditched the 100% sole rubber regulation they were going to implement. That is good news as there were a lot of closeout prices on boots from before they made the changes!
As for speed traversing boots, hard to go wrong with the Dynafit TLT5 or 6, if you need more beef, you can step up to the Vulcan/Mercruy/One.
according to this discussion I found in internetland, the TLT5 is comparable in stiffness to the 4 buckle boots of yesterday, http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/261028-AT-Boot-Comparative-Flex-by-model-*updated*?highlight=AT+boot+comparative , though take that with a grain of salt.
Douglas Sproul says
Stano,
Thanks for the beta. Looks great! I see that these are all ultra-lights but I was wondering if you could recommend something for speed traversing out of all the new two and three buckle boots? So many to choose from now. I am used to an older three buckle Dynafit with the wire bails. This has been the tool for the big missions but now it seems time to upgrade. Are the newer two-buckle stiffer than my old three buckle? Or should I just go with one of the lighter three buckle for a bit more performance and they will still be lighter than my old ones. Folks are sending some big lines in some pretty small gear but I am kinda tired of compromising performance. Like; being out in the dark and having to sketch down a slope as opposed to being able to shred it. Still seeking the balance.
aviator says
the new 400g Gignoux Morpho 400 is popping up everywhere
seems the top part of the bikini liner is now integrated in the cuff?
probably so it can be trimmed down as much as possible?
http://news.pierregignoux.fr/
http://www.skitour.fr/annonces/13672
http://www.ski-alpinisme.com/actualite/2013/fixationGignoux2013.pdf
Stano says
Jonathan,
Unfortunately I cannot comment on the Aliens’ fit as I ordered both in small size for me (made a mistake). Both Alien and Alien 1.0 I have are 27MP. I weighed them, all 4 boots, on 2 different scales and the difference is not as big as Scarpa claims. Alien 1.0 was cca. 700g instead of 680g, and the Alien was lighter than Scarpa claimed, that narrowed the difference. However, as I noted to Steve I don’t have a commercial scale. But I still feel my weighing shows the difference to be less.
As for fit, I cannot comment… or only say “yay, that hurts” 🙂
Jonathan Shefftz says
Steve, we economists would essentially classify this as an example of price discrimination (which is not necessarily a pejorative term, despite the use of the word “discrimination”):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
Stano, my heart is kind of set on the DyNA EVO (especially since the original DyNA has been so good to me over three seasons, including the first season — before the TLT5 — when it was my only boot for all my skiing), but curious about the Alien 1.0 … what is the bsl on any sizes you’ve had or inspected, and how does the fit compare to the TLT5 and EVO?
Stano says
Weighing the Alien 1.0 and Alien I can say that at 27 there is not a 210g difference, it is less. My scale is not super accurate but it looks to be only 160-170g of which about 100g would be the shell, the rest is the liner. So you could have a cheaper light version if you switch liners, however, the difference in stiffness of the shells is very noticeable (downhill performance).
Stano says
Shaving weight:
Steve, I believe too that if shaving weight then boots are more important than skis or bindings, but you need to have a nice technique – not picking up your skis much.
Alien Revelstoke orders:
You can order them with me. Make sure you pick the right size, see above for sizing.
Deposit is $200 with the remaining $300 to be paid on delivery…which is unknown at this time 😉
Mel says
Gimme a pair of the Alien Revy! Love it! Thx Stano for having done such a great research of to material!
Steve Sellers says
Great Job Stano. I really liked the ski page too. Interesting how both Scarpa and Dyna offer a slightly heavier boot (+100g) for 1/2 the price. Does it really cost double to shave off those last 100g ? I will say though that when it comes to effective weight loss you’ll notice lighter boots more than any other place. I got the Evo’s last year and was amazed at how much quicker I seemed to be able to move my legs.
PS Where can I get those Alien Revelstokes?